The Old Men
The Old Men—formerly the Old Men Who Yell at Clouds—is a podcast where we ramble, debate, and occasionally make sense of music, health, technology, and whatever is happening in local or global news.
The Old Men
Episode 044: Neil Morrison
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We are joined by legendary radio broadcaster, Neil Morrison.
We sit down and catch up with Neil Morrison, legendary radio broadcaster in Vancouver and Toronto for over 25 years. We yak about working in radio and the challenges broadcasters face today. Also, podcasting; Who the hell is ‘Brother Bill’; The Toronto Maple Leafs; Meeting his idol, Joe Strummer; And what he is listening to now!
Recorded on Sunday, December 6, 2020.
You'd probably have a better time picking your nose, but that's just how you're choosing to spend your time. Listening to these guys. Well, at least they both love heavy metal. Here are the old men, Adam and Steven.
SPEAKER_03Yes, welcome out to it, another episode, another edition of Old Men Who Yell at Clouds. We are episode 44. It is December 6th, 2020. This is a special episode for us because not only do I have Steven joining me. Hello, Steven.
SPEAKER_05Well, of course I'm here, Adam. Thank you. Hi.
SPEAKER_03We have legend Brother Bill, aka Neil Morrison, joining us today. And I hope he just shares some stories of what he's been up to, what's going on in his life, and you know, just being himself. You know, we worked with Neil for in the Petey Tower, which I think we've mentioned, had to have mentioned many a time. So hopefully uh he we should share share some battle stories and figure out what's going on from him uh moving forward here.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, definitely. This is gonna be really cool. I've been looking forward to this for a while. We haven't I haven't talked to uh to to Neil in shit, I don't know how long. Uh well, maybe a couple times after he got let go from from the Black Tower and you know, just online, I guess at Twitter once in a while. We we we pass uh comments and tweets and whatever, but this is gonna be really cool to actually talk to him and see his face.
SPEAKER_03We would like to welcome to Old Man Who Yellow Clouds, a living radio legend. Some people call him Brother Bill, other people call him Nemo, but most of us call him Neil Morrison. Please welcome to the show, Neil Morrison.
SPEAKER_02Right on.
SPEAKER_03Hey, hey, good seeing you, man.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, pretty good. It's been a while since I've seen either one of you guys. It's gotta be years. I don't know how many. I've been gone from our old place of work for seven years almost. So wow. I I I don't know what happened to you guys. Like, I I I I know you both uh got the manila envelopes as well, but at different times. I was two years after you guys. Two years. So were you let go the same day as I was, Steven?
SPEAKER_05No, I was let go two years. I think you two years after you were gone in 2014, correct? Correct. Yeah, so I was gone in June, June of 2016. And Adam, you were gone when?
SPEAKER_03Uh 2017.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_02So what what if I mean I don't know if you guys have talked about this. I do apologize. I I didn't know about this podcast until Todd was on, and then I saw it and I went, hey, I know these dudes.
SPEAKER_05You know, this this is fucking 44 now, man. Yeah, I know I apologize. I gotta go back. No, no, that's okay. Hey, it's uh we've got one or two listeners, that's about it. But uh after Todd, we've got three or four, and maybe after you we'll have five and six.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I doubt it. You guys have gone back down again. Definitely gone back down. The first guy started a little bit of a roll with Todd, and then now you got me on.
SPEAKER_05Well shit, let's that's it. We'll cut it then. Let's go. Talk to you later. Have fun.
SPEAKER_02Well well the only reason, uh David Letterman that I wanted to be on uh on the show. The only reason I wanted to be on the show was uh I wanted to find out what happened to you guys. Like what what was the deal with uh you're letting goes.
SPEAKER_05I'll see you when you go first. It's June 2016, and uh hey, I'm working hard like I always do, and and one morning I get a call from uh who's the general manager? Um Brad. Uh yes, that's right. Uh so Brad's uh rings me up. Uh he wants to see me in his office, and uh hey, I don't think anything of it. I go in there, and even when I entered the office, I I had I had no fucking clue, like I had no idea what was about to happen. Yeah, uh, who is the in charge of HR for chorus? I like I forget all these names, like it's been like I just we all know who he is.
SPEAKER_02Um uh the guy's out of Edmonton or Albert, somewhere in Alberta.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I think so.
SPEAKER_02His son's name's Jeremy. That's right.
SPEAKER_05We know his son, he worked there for a little bit. Anyway, anyway, so they're both in Brad's office, and hey here guys, how's it going? And yeah, they lay it, lay it on me. At first I thought, fuck, I did what did I do wrong? Like what's what what's happening here? I was totally in shock. I had I had I didn't suspect this was happening at all, right? So um, so yeah, they said, Oh, well, no, no, you didn't do anything wrong. Don't worry about it. Um, this is just uh yeah, just uh obviously working in radio, everybody knows this happens, but most people, uh at least me, anyways, I didn't think it was gonna happen to me.
SPEAKER_02Well, um, yeah, yeah, we were we were sort of the beginning of a wave of everybody getting fired. Like I was I mean, you know, Todd and I got let go within 24 hours of each other. Obviously, it was in the plans for quite some time, um, and I know why, and we can get into it in a little bit if you want, it's up to you guys, but um, yeah, so that's unfortunate. I mean, what what did they do with that department? Because it was you, Ryan Hobson, and two other people.
SPEAKER_05Well, Hobson was gone already. He left and joined um Stingray. Stingray. Well, they're they're Stingray now, so they were uh no, no, they were the the smaller company, Newcap.
SPEAKER_02Oh, New Cap.
SPEAKER_05So yeah, so he joined Newcap, and then they've grown into Stingray now. So he was gone already. There was me, like uh oh, sorry, they did hire um, they did hire another graphic designer, digital designer. So there were two of us doing that role, but they let go the senior designers across the country. So there was a really cool dude in Edmonton, they let him go. Uh, one of the people in Toronto, she had been with Chorus longer than I have, uh, they let her go too. So they just kind of stripped the departments down completely. And uh, not that I was making a bunch of money because I I certainly wasn't. Um I so I who knows. So obviously they were just trying to trim, and you know, I got I got caught up in the mess.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, they they had trimmed so much fat in the 26 years that I worked for them that they had to start cutting into the uh into the protein, as it were, because it just it's just you know, the business I'm I I the business is is in horrible shape right now, and yeah, and unfortunately it's been run by people who you know are following the almighty buck because they have to answer to shareholders, and um and and you know, everybody eventually gets theirs. What happened to you, Al? Um Mr. Baldwin.
SPEAKER_03Uh so same thing. I was it was like August 30th. I was after we finished the O'Neill show. I got called into Dustin's office 26, oh 2017. Oh, okay. And I got called then. I say he's like, I sat down, there was another dude sitting on the desk. He's like, Adam, this is Mark. Today's your last day, of course. He's gonna walk you through the process. I'm like, process of what? Uh so you know, you're just like, okay, well shit. Is am I fired? He's like, Yep, okay, cool. So what am I doing? And so they gave him this shit. They're like, Oh, course he's gonna help you do a bunch of stuff, and you get you know, nine months of severance or whatever the fuck it is. And so I was like, Okay, uh, I guess that's it. And then they escorted me outside the building, and as I'm leaving, they're like, Are you able to get home? I'm like, I'm able to get home. It's like, well, you live in Delta or whatever it is, are you able to get home? I'm like, Can I say no? And can you give me some money? Like, how does this work? Yeah, yeah. But yeah, that I mean it was pretty much it. They said so. Do they hand you 50 bucks? Uh they gave me 20. Oh, okay. And um, they're just like, Yeah, it's nothing to do with again, nothing to do with your performance. We're just making cuts. Can you force you to go into the cutbacks?
SPEAKER_02Like, I I I see that I can I can understand me and I can understand Todd, and I can understand a lot of people, but I can't understand either one of you guys because, like you mentioned, Steven, it's not like you were making big bucks, yeah, you know, and and uh Adam, I mean, you were this you were necessary, you were helping out the morning show, you weren't getting paid big bucks either. Nope, you know, and it's like, why would you need to cut Baldwin? Because it's not like it's gonna make a difference in the bottom line when you think about it. I mean, did did were you having problems with O'Neal or anything like that? Or was it just not at all? Nothing.
SPEAKER_03Just nothing was everything was straight up and there was nothing wrong. And then about I guess close to uh eight or nine months, they hired a replacement for me. So yeah, who was probably making half what you made, yeah, which is just it's I can't even imagine. I don't even want to go.
SPEAKER_05Half half of nothing is is what I don't know, yeah. It's it's not very negative numbers almost.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's unfortunate, and and really it's like everybody we worked with has basically been let go, or they're part of the Jeff O'Neill show, and good for that. You know, Neil show continues to roll, and uh, I'm glad uh that they're doing all right. I mean, how long it's gonna last, I don't know. You know, I watched what's going on in Ottawa right now with uh their news station switching to the FM dial. Uh, I think that's is that chocolate milk, buddy? Yes, it is. Who's tucking you in tonight?
SPEAKER_03You see all the stuffies in the background?
SPEAKER_02I do.
SPEAKER_03I got rock halo character. I'm good to go.
SPEAKER_02It's sad when you think of no, I'm just kidding. Living my bachelor life, baby. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Uh no, I I, you know, uh seeing what's going on in Ottawa with the FMs now. So what's happened, I don't know if you guys have heard, but basically they canned everybody in their medium market size stations in like Kingston, Ontario, and and Renfrew and things like this. And so this guy named Jason Barr, uh, and uh his buddy something bigs, I can't remember his name. They're gonna be the they're gonna be the morning show for all of these smaller markets now out of Ottawa. Then they got rid of the Jack format, which is not a surprise because it doesn't work anywhere except for Vancouver for some reason. Um, and uh and then they switched the big surprise for me was switching the news station to the FM dial because I always thought CKNW would probably be better on the FM dial because no one's really listening to AM radio anymore, right? Yeah, um, and so I I think frankly, it's probably a matter of time. If it takes off that station in in Ottawa, probably gonna see it happening in other markets, including Vancouver. So if I worked for Sea Fox right now, I'd be thinking about things. I'd be I'd be a little going, I don't know what's gonna happen. I mean, guys like Jeff are gonna be just fine, Scotty, Jeff, Karen, they're gonna be fine. But anybody else working for that station right now, uh, you know, Ed and Carmen and people like that, I mean, I worry for them because the same thing could happen to them when happened to us, which happened to us. So yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. It's unfortunate. But I haven't really listened to the station um since I left. I I've I've listened to it a few times.
SPEAKER_03Um well, you know how it goes, same songs, different order, nothing really changes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, I know, man. It was funny because you're right, Adam, because when I when I do turn it on occasionally, I hear the same fucking songs that I was playing seven years ago. I was like, holy shit, really? And not good songs either, like shitty old Can Con songs. I'm like the trues, yeah, and and when the night feels my song by Bedouin Soundclock. It's like, come on, remote your dreams and haunt your dreams.
SPEAKER_03A lot of those songs did, man, for sure. All the stills, the fucking stills being here. How is that? Still playing that. They're still playing it. Yeah, see, unfortunately, not unfortunately, but I still listen to a lot of radio because I'm a delivery driver now. So I'm whipping across the dial the whole time, and I hear all these same songs every day. And uh, I listen to our brothers and sisters at Sea Fox, and they you know, they're all doing their own thing, and it's you know, it's supposed to be personality driven, but it's really hard to be personality driven when you're only allowed to talk for 45 seconds.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's a problem too. Yeah, absolutely. That's that's that's a big problem. And now with podcasting, obviously that has been thrown out the window. Um, also the local, local, local front seems to be done too, uh, with all of the you know, the amalgamations of all the morning shows going in different markets and stuff. You know, I I I don't know how Larry at Rock 101 is able to communicate to people in Edmonton where they're on as well, and Vancouver and be relevant. I I just don't I don't get it. Um and like you say, Adam, you you got a job where you're you're you know you're on the road all day. Yeah, so you it's cool for you because you can keep monitoring what's going on. But for guys like me, and I don't know about you, Stephen, but for me, you know, I I I am I when I'm in my car for the most part at Spotify, yeah because I didn't I didn't I didn't uh like like you Stephen. I mean we we liked music that the radio didn't play. Exactly. You too, Adam. But I I mean you know, like I liked some of the stuff I played on the radio, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't go home and say, oh man, I gotta throw on that new Tea Party single. You know what I mean? Like fuck no. You know what I mean? It's it sounds great on the radio, fun to listen to, but you know, I and there really is to me there nowadays, there's not a lot of reason to listen to the radio. I I like um Larry or sorry, Willie's on Rock 101, Larry's on Jack. Sorry. So Larry has an 80s show on Jack that I used to love listening to because I knew like my 90s at noon, it was free format. He could play whatever he wanted. It's not like that. I can tell it's been changed now because it's now syndicated across the country with a different host who's a guy named Carlos Benavides, who I worked with in Toronto. Um, he's in Victoria and a couple other markets, and and Larry Larry's still here, and you know, Larry's a legend in this market, man. I mean, we all know that, right? And this just to hear the stories that he can tell regarding some of these songs from the 80s to pull it into Vancouver is phenomenal. And I love listening to his stories. I think I think that's the best show on the radio right now, um, to tell you the truth, in my opinion, anyway. I I I listened to the 90s at noon, and the last time I listened to the 90s at noon, I mean, you know, bless Carmen. I I love her, she's a fantastic human being. But you know, the last time I heard the 90s at noon, they she did a big sell on a song by you two that was coming up on the 90s at noon that was from Rattle and Hum, which was released in 1987.
SPEAKER_05The late 80s, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I'm like, wait a minute, like, okay, maybe the average listener doesn't give a shit or whatever. But you know what? The one thing that I used to pride myself on in the 90s at noon was knowing your shit, you know what I mean? And knowing knowing when the album came out and you know how it went into the 90s or if it did. So I couldn't believe that. First of all, a song by U2, one of the biggest rock bands in the world ever, uh, a song that came out in 1987 on an album called Rattle and Hump, got by not only Carmen, but by the music director who programmed it. You know, to me, that's just uh it's unacceptable. It's lazy, lazy broadcasting and and lazy fucking uh programming. It's and you know what? Why is that? And I think uh the reason why we we know that's why, because you know, as salaries go lower and lower and lower, your quality of people is gonna go lower and lower and lower as well. Yeah, yeah, again, no disrespect to Carmen. Yeah, I think she's a good broadcaster, you know. You know, but come on, that's that shit can't happen.
SPEAKER_05Or or good quality people, obviously, but they don't give a shit anymore. It's gotten to that point where they just don't care, right? And uh and that's unfortunate. And it happens, it happens not just in radio, that just happens in life, and it's really sad. So yeah, um, I mean, I don't listen to radio hardly at all anymore. I didn't listen to radio when I was working in radio, and uh I've mentioned that many times here. Uh and hey, hey, it's true, and it's for it's for some of those very reasons that you already talked about, Neil. And I'm just tired of hearing the same old shit all the time, and I'd rather listen to what I want.
SPEAKER_02Whenever well, and that's what everybody does now, right? They they listen to what they want. I mean again, uh Adam, you're mentioning you're you're you're scanning across the dial, but only when you're working, only when I'm working, not when you get home and go, hey, I think I'm gonna throw on the radio. I mean, uh that's that's those days were over years ago, though. I mean, those days, you know, those days were done when I started in the late 80s, early 90s, people were already starting to tune out when they got home and because they had other options, you know, uh not streaming, but you know, you had like uh DVD players and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, CD players and yeah, exactly. You didn't need to listen to the radio, and and uh anyway, yeah, you could sit here and you could just bitch about radio the whole time, uh the whole all day long. We could definitely do that, and we have a right to as well, because I don't know, after 26 years, I thought there'd be a little bit of loyalty. That's a long time. Clearly, that was that was wrong. Yeah, that's yeah. I I had a I had a good run with chorus, I'm not gonna lie. Uh 26 years of them, 16 in Toronto and 10 in Vancouver. Wow. Uh cannot complain at all. Uh, and they actually they they paid me reasonably too. Yeah, they didn't pay. I yeah, believe it or not, I didn't make Jeff O'Neill money, I didn't make Todd Hancock money. Oh, you know, I made Neil Morrison money, and that was that wasn't too bad, you know. So I can't complain.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that's cool. I mean, I I don't want to trash it all the time either, and because I really do appreciate the opportunity that I was given, you know, met lots of great people and worked with you guys and did some really cool things. Um, I didn't I didn't certainly get to where I thought I would be, not only financially, but uh because money's not everything, but um, yeah, just with just with everything, honestly, I wasn't happy for a while. So it's probably, you know, yeah, I I can say it now, obviously. I can look back and say, well, it was probably for the best. Uh, but I wish I had gone on my terms, of course. That's the only thing.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, everybody wants to leave on their own terms, that's for sure. Uh, I don't know many people in radio who get that chance.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm I'm looking, I'm looking uh forward to finding out where uh Justin Wilcombs, aka.
SPEAKER_05Oh yes, yes, isn't he announcing in a couple days what's happening here? I've been seeing something countdown on Twitter, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I saw three today when we recorded this was a Sunday, so I saw three. So I'm presuming Wednesday he's gonna make an announcement. I'm assuming it would have to be the Jack job, the morning show. Um, but who knows?
SPEAKER_05Um do you yeah, do you think he wants to be? I I know he wants to be in broadcasting, but do you think he wants to stay stay in radio? I I mean I don't know.
SPEAKER_02I I no that I don't know, but I do I think that he'd be a right fit for Jack.
SPEAKER_04No, no, not at all.
SPEAKER_02I like the guy's super talented, I love the man for sure, but I don't think Jack's right for him. So I'm thinking if it's not that, then maybe he's got a gig at the CBC or it's a national gig, maybe somewhere out of Vancouver. Yeah, it could be.
SPEAKER_03I mean, the shift was drax was a great show. He got some really odd. Yeah, the shift of Drex on um 980. He he he killed it there. It was a fantastic show. I listened as much as I could when I was working, it was it was it was good, it still is pretty good. I mean, the minians are really good and really well based and thought out stuff, but he was fantastic on that show.
SPEAKER_02Well, he he brought back radio listening at night, yeah. Yeah, he really did. I mean, nobody that was a dead zone uh late night and and or and into the early mornings, and they gave him that national show and he ran with it. And and I'm not surprised because he's he's I think he's that good. Um, and good for him, but he left according to him from the tweet I read, he left because one of the sales guys, aka I'm not sure. I'm not sure, but one of the head of head of sales said uh his show wasn't a priority. Really? Yeah, yeah, and that's he said, Well, fuck you then, because I'm pulling ratings, so I quit. Yeah, which surprised me. I thought I didn't think he had quit, I thought he had uh kind of been gently shown the door, but no, yeah, he's claiming he quit and he had a no-compete contract, which a lot of us did or do. Um and uh and now that no non-compete is over, it's up. So I'm looking forward to seeing where he's gonna end up.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, for sure. It'll be interesting. I'm looking uh looking forward to that too.
SPEAKER_03So are you guys done with radio, both you guys, or what? Yeah, I I I left course as my last thing, and yeah, we just recently started, we've been doing this podcast for through the close of like almost nine months, 10 months. Just thought we'd do it. It's our COVID project. So we're just like, hey, let's fucking talk about music and current events. So that's kind of what we're doing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Uh reaching out now that we kind of got our wheels wet and you know, our feet moving, you know, let's reach out to some of the old people we haven't talked with in a little while and see what the fuck happened.
SPEAKER_02So that's yeah, it was uh it was great to hear you guys talking to Todd. That was a lot of fun to listen to it because I you know Todd's podcast is one thing, but we can just get him sitting around shooting the shit. Oh, I like what he has to say. Definitely. I one of the guys that uh probably blew my mind the most uh coming to Vancouver and working with was Todd because uh the guy's just fucking really smart. Yeah. And I never I didn't know who he was when I first met him. And I was just blown away. And and and then listening to you guys talking to him, I just uh reaffirmed what I always thought, and that is the guy's the guy is just a fucking hustler and he knows how to. How to get shit done. And uh I wish I had I wish I had half the drive that guy does.
SPEAKER_03And he knows the science of radio, he knows the importance of a hook and a push and the back sell and how to do all the fun radio stuff. And it's awesome because he's teaching his knowledge to the BCIT kids. So be the perfect resource to talk to for anything. So yeah, good for him.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. Uh I I wonder, I mean, I've been there and talked to that class before his clock his class a couple years ago. I did that, and it just yeah, I'm just uh floored by the wealth of knowledge it is. And I liked it when he was talking to you guys, and he he had said after his first day he was kind of bummed out because he's like, Well, I don't want to give away all my secrets, and I'm like, that's totally Todd, man. I want to give away the secrets, and I'm like, and then his wife said something about you know, no big deal, so he's just you know, full full tilt into that, which is great.
SPEAKER_03You know, that's the hard soul, man. Like you're competing, like he was talking about you're like he could be comp like competing against one of his students for the next gig. So yeah, if they know his secrets, like you know it's the handbook, yeah. So I I get where he's coming from from that.
SPEAKER_02So I just don't know why Todd needs to go back to what why he's even entertaining going back to radio. I mean, he's like he says, he's making more money now than he did even when he worked at Sea Fox. Yeah, I mean, mind you, I don't know. I I think he got into with you guys. I mean, you're working, he's working 60 to 70 hours a fucking week.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and I'm not sure they just got anybody helping him. I don't know if somebody's helping with social at least, yeah, because he's doing lots, like he's doing all the interviews and I think all the posting to social, and that's a lot of work.
SPEAKER_02And this is what happened with with the business with you know, for guys like me are a little older, and and Todd's not quite my age, but and neither either one of you guys, you pricks.
SPEAKER_05Um, uh no, I've probably got a couple on you, but uh okay.
SPEAKER_02Anyway, anyway, yeah, anyway, anyway, same era, shall we say? But you know, when I got into it, man, it was all about talking on the radio and and doing a little production. Now it's and Todd's one who's told you he's he's a great, you know, kind of definition of what it is now. I mean, all the production has to be done, all the booking has to be done, all the interviews have to be done, yeah. It's like you have to do everything now, and I just I I don't know if I've got that in me anymore to be able to do that. I'm just not as talented as Todd either. He's he's a great, he was always a great producer, like producing his show. Oh, yeah. Elements of his show, he could do shit that I couldn't do.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so well, he got off the on the right foot too at that at the right time because uh I don't think anybody, at least in radio, was doing what he was doing. Sure, podcasts have been around for a while for a long time, but uh he was probably one of the first, at least in this market, to kind of do the podcasting thing. And he, as he mentioned in our chat, he um he had all of the sponsors right off the fly, which which which is so helpful, obviously. Uh, I mean, us were you know, we're just two guys. Uh we used to meet up for coffee until this shitty pandemic came along.
SPEAKER_02Oh, is that how you guys okay?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so that's uh well, we figured, and we've been talking about it even back then, I think just casually, or at least I didn't know I didn't take it. I didn't take it seriously. Maybe Adam took it a little bit more seriously than I gotta fuck. But but hey, but hey, we we couldn't meet for coffee anymore, so we fucking started chatting here, and um, you know, we're we don't know where it's going, and it's it's fun to have you guys on now because we've been talking about grabbing some guests here and just shooting the shit and seeing what happens, right? So uh, but for him, you know, to have those sponsors, um, and because he wasn't working, that's the other thing. We're working, we have our full-time job, so yeah, uh, he wasn't doing anything, he needed some income, and he got off to a really good start.
SPEAKER_02So he he did, and and like he said, he just went into these people, he just had the balls to walk into a the hard rock casino and say, give me some money for my podcast, and that's huge, yeah. Yeah, but they but also, I mean, the the the the brand, as they say, the brand that is Todd Hancock is is pretty significant, you know what I mean. It wasn't like he took five years and then started something, he went right the day after he got let go and started that podcast, smartest thing he could have done. And I wish and I had wished that I had done that too, but I kind of wanted to take a little time because I had been doing it for you know 26 years, and I was like, I need a year, I had a year and a half severance, and I went, I'm gonna take a year off. Oh, totally, yeah. I tried that I tried to get a podcast going as well. Uh it's amazing how podcasting has changed in even the last five years. I mean, I don't know how it is now, Adam, with the technical side of things, like putting stuff up onto the various platforms.
SPEAKER_03Well, we can't we uh switch to duty, so Steven does all the web stuff. Oh, I see hosting, and I do all the editing and production stuff. Oh, I see.
SPEAKER_02Okay, well, Stephen, I I don't know how it is now, but I used to have to write code and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's pretty simple now. Obviously, there are the platforms that you can have host your podcasts, uh, but of course they cost money, and we uh we just wanted to do things ourselves and be as cheap as possible, at least to get started. So we're like I we got booked a we got a domain, uh I've got web hosting set up. So we do everything from the website. Yeah, so our our podcast episodes are hosted from our website. They get they of course do get fed to Spotify, Apple, and all the other major uh platforms and stuff like that. So you can you can listen to us on all those other platforms, yeah. But but the audio is hosted from our own website, and yeah, there's no you know, sure you have to know WordPress in this case and and how to set up a site and then how to how to upload the audio, but that's all really simple now, at least that part of it is so yeah, yeah, for sure. So it wasn't it was easy for us.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's good. Yeah, um, do you you know that there's another podcast with the same name, right? Yeah, yeah. So how does that what is that what happens there? I mean, is there copyright or what goes on? Well, when we start getting more than 15 plays, we'll figure it out.
SPEAKER_05But we we haven't been served a uh copyright notice or anything like that yet.
SPEAKER_02So uh oh okay, because you like like anything, I would assume you have to have a copyright to use a name.
SPEAKER_05Well, in this yeah, yeah, for sure. If that it will process the bridge when it happens, if it will happens, yeah.
SPEAKER_03If anything, we'll change it to old people who yell at clouds.
SPEAKER_05Well, see, uh I struggle with the old part because Adam here really isn't that old. Hey, listen, I'm old at heart, okay?
SPEAKER_02I'm an old soul. You're old at heart. No, like I I swear to god, I'm looking at like Adam and it's like I saw him yesterday. It's like there's nothing that's changed, man.
SPEAKER_03I've lost like 30 pounds since I saw him. I can't tell. Because I'm all because I'm on a shitty, but I'm yeah, yeah. So like it's because I'm a delivery driver, all I'm doing is fucking moving. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. So um, but that's my next one. So after you left course, you started the podcast with Danger. Yeah, that uh I love that because again, it was just like when it first came out, it was the Morris and Danger podcast, and of course you had Trish on with you guys, yeah, and that was fantastic. That was great to listen to. So walk me through the process of that. So, how why'd you guys start and then why'd you guys end? Like what happened there?
SPEAKER_02Sure, yeah. I I'll try and say it as fast as possible. So, what happened was I live in White Rock and I know a guy down this way who has a studio, had a studio, um, a recording studio, because he did a lot of commercial jingle work and stuff like that. So I ran into him one day, excuse me, I ran into him one day, and I I said, uh, look, I've got this idea that I'm thinking about doing a podcast, and uh, I'd really like to use your studios, and I'm thinking about a business partnership. So we'll all be like, you know, you and I will be equal equal partners in this business and want to try and build a podcast. And the goal at that time was to maybe sell it to radio stations throughout the country, okay, with his help because he knows a lot of contacts in smaller markets. Um, originally it was myself and Martin Strong. I had approached him about it first, yeah, and it was gonna be Morrison and Marty. That was the name of the podcast. And we did uh we did some um what do you call mock shows, if you will. Uh couple for we made a demo and all that, and then out of the blue, Marty just said, I can't do it. He just he didn't uh feel he could put the uh the time and energy into it. Plus, he lives in East Van and I'm in White Rock, and the studio was in White Rock, so I got it. It was a bit of a disappointment for me because I thought he and I had some pretty good chemistry, and Marty's a funny guy, yeah. Um, and I thought it would have fit nicely. I'd already thought about okay, I'm Morrison and Marty, MM, my MM meat shops. I was thinking about all that kind of stuff anyway. So I I so I was kind of didn't know what I was gonna do, and for some reason, danger came to mind. Uh, Darren. Yep. And uh, and so I man, I can't even remember if I approached him. I'm assuming I did. And I said, Look, I got this podcast and it's just getting going, and I'm looking for a partner, uh, along with my business partner that I have now, splitting things evenly, and let's build something and try and sell it as a radio show. And he was totally on board with it. Um, and so we started doing our thing. We tried to get on Roundhouse Radio. I had an interview with uh what's his name, the guy that was running Roundhouse, and um, older guy with C Fox's program director back in the day. It's just I'm in a mind blank anyway. So I sat down with him and he uh he um he liked the idea. He thought it was a great idea that he didn't have to pay us, just give us you know uh a couple of hours each either each day or each each week or weekend or something, and we'll sell our own show. We'll sell it and we'll even give you a cut of it. And so he thought it was a pretty good idea, but at the end he passed, so that sucked. It kind of put us back a little bit. Um, then there was talk of uh another guy coming on board that wanted to put some money into it, who ended up being at a little bit of a shyster, and that didn't happen. Uh, then we lost our producer, the guy that was producing it was a guy named Royce Whittaker.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02If you're a guitar player, you probably know who Royce is. Yeah, um, he works with Mariana's trench now, but he, you know, his father was one of the partners, and he was our producer, and uh he was great, man, and and he did a lot of work for us, but he just he was the only guy getting paid too. Uh, but he couldn't put the could the commitment into it that we needed to, so we lost him. And then it was just um, you know, no offense to danger. Um it just I I wasn't I didn't feel like danger was putting in what I needed we both needed to put into this business to make it work, and then finally I after about I think we did 50 or 60 or 70 episodes. Oh wow, that yeah, we did a few. Yeah, no, maybe I'm 50. So and and and then one day I just called Danger out of the blue and I said, I can't do this anymore. I just it's not going anywhere. And we're you know, it just seems like I'm going, you know, kicking against the pricks. There's no we're not getting anywhere here, yeah. And uh, we were losing our numbers as far as you know, the SoundCloud numbers, we were watching them get lower and lower and lower. And uh and I said, I just don't think I can do this anymore. I'm gonna cut it. And he's and he he surprised the hell out of me. The first things that came out of his mouth were, Oh, I'm kind of glad. I was like, You probably could have told me this before I spent, you know, five thousand dollars on t-shirts and promoting and you know, this kind of stuff. I so I was a little upset, but you know, bygones are bygones, and uh, and I don't see danger around that often. I hear them obviously, but uh yeah, and it just kind of fell apart, and that's kind of a drag because I think that where we were momentum-wise, if we had hung in there a little bit longer, I think things would have changed. Yeah, you know, they really would have. I was I was calling Todd Hancock every other day saying, What are you doing? What do we need to do for advice? And Todd was great, he was giving me advice, and but yeah, at the end of the day, you know, there was one of us putting everything into it, and then the other guy I don't think was putting that much into it and didn't seem to care. And unfortunately, it led to uh a bit of a demise of the show. So it's gone, it's you know what happens again. I I hey Adam, I got nothing against danger, man. I got no problem, he's still a buddy of mine for sure. Cool, but um, I'll take one of those shirts you got kicking around. Danger's got them, he uses them for rags to wash his car apparently. They only cost me 250 bucks from Lyle Chaussey. Oh, that's good.
SPEAKER_03Lyle's a he does all that stuff. He's gonna give Lyle some business now.
SPEAKER_02I haven't seen Lyle in a long time either. Any of you guys seen him?
SPEAKER_03I talked to him at the beginning of the pandemic for a good uh you know, a couple hours. You know, Lyle likes to talk, so he'd be a perfect guest for the show. You know what? He would.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, he knows he knows his medal, man. He knows the music, he knows there'd be a lot of great conversation with him. I nominate Lyle for the next episode.
SPEAKER_03Oh, he's he's on the list, danger's on the list. We're moving through. Trish is on the list. Oh, cool. Yeah, we'll try you.
SPEAKER_02Uh we'll I you know what funny. Sorry to bring it back, but you know, I I really thought that when we started that podcast between myself and Darren and Trish, I thought we had like a good team. I thought we were a good team. I thought I thought um uh we could have we things I thought things were gonna happen. Um, you know, partially my fault too, because uh, as Darren pointed out many times, he thought I talked too much.
SPEAKER_03I mean it happens, it happens. I mean, your Twitter is at Neil Talks if you want to follow Neil Morrison.
SPEAKER_05That's right. And if you got some good shit to talk about, then why not? Just let it happen.
SPEAKER_02Well, that's it. That's what I that's what I thought. But you know, again, uh it's it's unfortunate that it didn't happen because I would have really liked it with it. And I hope it works out for you guys. Well, thanks.
SPEAKER_05Well, yeah, thanks. I was just gonna say though, Adam, we're coming up 150 here. Are you gonna give me the heave-hoe here pretty soon?
SPEAKER_03And maybe uh I think I'll go to 100 and then give me the heave ho.
SPEAKER_05Okay, so I got I got some time. Yeah, I got some time. That's what does that mean?
SPEAKER_03We'll see what happens after 100 episodes.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I see. I see. Yeah, I mean, it's you right now you guys are doing it the way you should be doing it. It's a hobby. Yeah, it's some extra fun, you know what I mean? And that's the way I think you should be doing it. And and then if if anything happens, hey, bonus.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. We're talking about metal music that no one's listening to. I talk about pop music that Steven doesn't like and he makes fun of me for it. And we talk about a bunch of tech stuff, so it's it's a win-win for everyone, I think.
SPEAKER_02So the the pop music thing was was interesting when I when I got this when I left Seafox. You guys know I went to another radio station for a while. Yes that I don't want to, I don't want to name.
SPEAKER_03Well, I was gonna join that radio station as well, and we've had a conversation. That's the last time I talked to you was when I was about to go in there.
SPEAKER_02Man, I am let me just say this. I am glad, Adam, that you did not go there.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, they were pulling out all the stops, but it's my gut said, Don't go, don't go, don't go, because it was kind of it seemed kind of sketchy.
SPEAKER_02So I were they coming after you?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh, they were, right? Yep. And that's interesting because they had they had asked me who I thought basically uh would make a good addition, and your name definitely came up. But I think at that point they had already spoken with you. I think that that already happened.
SPEAKER_03I was in talks, uh, I uh obviously don't mention any names, but I was talking to the main guy in charge there, and yeah, he made it was dangling some carrots, but I'm just like, it just doesn't make sense, it doesn't feel right, something's off, and um and that's and then I was just like, I'm sorry, man, I gotta decline. And he tried dangling more carrots. I'm like, I'm still there's nothing you can do besides give me a million dollars, and then we show up. But yeah, as if you're offering me right now, it doesn't make any sense to me, and something feels off. So I said I declined.
SPEAKER_02He probably did he without getting too much into it, he probably lowballed you huge, right? Oh, hugely, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so I got him up to kind of where I wanted, and then a little bit higher than where I wanted, so I was ready to rock, but then he kind of was kind of pushing back a lot, and he's like, Can you write an essay and shit? I'm like, No, that doesn't make fucking sense. We talk on the radio. What's an essay gonna do about it?
SPEAKER_02You know what? That's not surprising to me at all. I I I can't really talk too much about it right now because frankly, they owe me money, and uh, and so there's Service Canada is about to get involved. Um it is what it is, so it is what it is, but let me tell you something. Um, I never thought I'd end up at a at a pop radio station playing Katy Perry, I'll tell you that. Hey, there's nothing wrong with Katy Perry. Hey, no, never mind. There is yeah, there is you know what? So this is an argument because Steve, before I started working at a pop radio station, I would I was on your side, but now that I worked there and I played some of this stuff, I actually kind of get it. Really? Wow, but for what it is, and that is you know, we're not going deep here, man. This is not a deep dive. This is this is like okay, I'm sitting in a doctor's office right now, and hey, there's that song Roar by KP. Didn't she look great in that video? That was about that's about it, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. What was happening with these guys was they wanted us to be like this, these, these politically charged, you know, members of the community and soapbox guys, and I'm like, well, why don't we do have what why isn't this a talk radio station then? And we'll do that, you know. So it was really hard to like talk about heart like heavy politics and you know, like go on about oh, mayor McCallum, blah blah blah blah blah. Here's Katy Perry, you know what I mean? It didn't make any sense. Wow, yeah, and uh and yeah, and and unfortunately, I yeah, maybe have me back in a year when it's all settled and we we can get into it because man, I could tell you some friggin' stories that just would make you guys spin because you got radio experience.
SPEAKER_05It was fun working in rock radio, especially. And again, it's be it's because you know, you know, some of the music at least, even though I didn't listen to a lot of radio, but it's but still uh uh you're familiar with the artists, you listen to some of the music, and sometimes we had guests in, as we know, and all that's really cool. You know, even designing some uh some creative around these bands and artists and stuff was really cool. Like I could not imagine doing that for an artist that I absolutely didn't give a shit about. Like, how how do you get that creative process going in order to create something really cool for whether it's a contest or or whatever? I couldn't do it. There, I just I couldn't do it, it's not in me. I right right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, I I know what you're saying. You just didn't have the uh just wasn't the the excitement wasn't there for you. No, not at not at all. That's no, I I I could tell that because I think about like okay, so one band, for example, that Steven and I both love is Social Distortion. Yeah, oh yeah, and so Mike Ness, Johnny Wickersham from the band came in, and I remember like the enthusiasm on Steven Durgis was tenfold compared to when hot hot heat came in. Yes, you know, definitely, but no, it was the same with me. I mean, as a massive fan, but we as as professionals, we had to kind of keep everything, tone it down a little bit. But it's funny because I I the YouTube has the Mike Ness interview and I watch it and I just go, fuck, I'm so nervous here. It's just like I can't believe that no one's called me on this. I I made a couple of stupid mistakes and facts that I questions I asked them, and and I just I was just so fucking nervous, you know what I mean. Like I've only been I've done done a ton of interviews. There's only been really two interviews where I've been really fucking nervous. One was one's Mike Ness and one's Joe Strummer. Those two guys, man. I just like you know, it's like, hey, you know, even the guys in Metallica were so easy that it was, you know, you'd be nervous, and then Hetfield is punching the arm and that'd be it. You'd just be like, oh cool, this is the guy. But these guys got something else to me, you know, and these guys are gods to me. And so having the chance to meet them was great, but man, I listened back to those interviews and I just go, Oh, fuck, it was how my best work.
SPEAKER_05That was one of my questions for you. Uh, I know you're a big fan of the clash, and well, probably your favorite band, as far as I can recall or remember, anyways. Uh and I was gonna ask you if you had spoken to Joe Strummer before he passed.
SPEAKER_02I spoke to Joe eight months before he died. Yeah, wow, yeah, uh in Toronto. Uh and it was so cool because we had an outdoor studio on Young Street, yeah. And and he comes in, and you know, the the the number one thing you're thinking when you're gonna meet one of your your heroes of music is God almighty, don't let them be an asshole. Please don't let it destroy me. Yeah, and and so he comes walking in with his guitar and he comes walking up and he comes walking by me, and I said, Hi, Joe. And he just kind of grumbled and went into the back, and I thought, oh fuck, he's gonna be a dick. He's gonna be a dick. And uh he came back out, and the f this was the coolest thing. He came out with his guitar, he walked on to Young Street and started busking in front of our station. No way. Yeah, man. It was it was one of the coolest things I've ever seen in my life. And he he was literally busking out front. And you could tell how famous this guy was because people were walking by and doing double takes. You know what I mean? They're like, hey, that's fucking Joe Strummer. You know what I mean? It wasn't like, who's this guy on the street? It was like people knew who he was. Yeah. And and just, you know, we had him in, and it just I again I couldn't get comfortable because it was just it was Joe fucking Strummer.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, but it was pretty cool to see him. And he he came back in afterwards. He said, Oh, sorry, mate, I was a little bit nervous, and he was really cool for the rest of the time. And he stuck around for two hours afterwards because we could have kids in to watch or people in to watch the interviews, and he stuck around and he signed absolutely everything for everyone pictures, the whole nine yards, you know. And it's just like, wow, this guy doesn't have to do this. Amazing. Um, the other guys I didn't I've never met. I had a close opportunity. When do you remember when Gorillas came to Rogers Arena? Yeah. One time they had Mick Jones and Paul Simon in playing with them. Oh, that's and so Dunner tried to get them in uh to talk to me, but uh they turned it down because I don't know, they didn't need it, they didn't need to. Yeah. Hang on, sorry, my mic cut for a second. So uh that was that was really cool. Um the Mike Ness interview, I've interviewed him twice. Uh and again, never felt comfortable because I was too goddamn nervous. Yeah, you know, yeah. And you know, if you want to talk, sorry, I was gonna say if you want to talk about interviews, I mean one of the ones that stands out the most for Sea Fox is when I had to do that uh that what did they call it? Not uninvited guests. We'd go over to the uh what was the studio on second? No, it's still Armory Studios, it was still an uninvited guest. Armory, yeah was an uninvited guest, yeah. We did one with Scott Wyland. Were you there for that one?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, oh I was, yeah. Oh fuck, like wow. It was a different format, but you handed yourself well. He wanted to play all the songs first, then did the interview, and that's how it works. But what the rock star wants is what the rock star gets.
SPEAKER_02So do you remember the condition? Do you remember the condition he was in, though? Like he would couldn't even fucking string a sentence together.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but when he was playing the songs, the songs were flawless.
SPEAKER_05The songs were good, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, they could they bomb it.
SPEAKER_05Songs sounded great. They seemed to be able to do that though.
SPEAKER_02So how how he was able to, I mean, he just the the the the whole the whole thing, just like the people that were with him and you know, stuff like that, just like they were wannabes, you know, and they were just yes men and they were just whatever you say, Scott, everything's great, Scott. And I just remember you couldn't fucking string a sentence together. We tried to get him to answer questions, and it was just like uh uh uh uh uh uh you know yeah, that's unfortunate that he lost uh he lost his life to that too, but yeah, for sure. That's the story, that's the way it goes.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, is that Strummer interview around somewhere? Is it like is it on YouTube or something like that? Uh somewhere in the archives. It'd be interesting to hear that around, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I don't know, it's not very long. I um it was maybe 15 minutes with that, and then he played live too, which was kind of cool, but he didn't do any clash, he just did his stuff. Um, a lot of the interviews that I did in Toronto um are on cassette, and I have no idea how to digitally transfer them from cassette to to digital to make them digital. Um Phil Evans Phil Evans is kind of helping me a little bit with some stuff, but he takes his time. I mean, I've got literally boxes and boxes of cassettes. Uh the Sea Fox interviews, unless they were recorded by you, Steven, and put up somewhere, they're gone. I I didn't keep any of them.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Yeah, that's uh there's probably lots of stuff along the way that just has disappeared, and some of it's probably mint. And yeah, it's too bad it's not there for all of us fans to really enjoy it.
SPEAKER_02No, exactly. I mean, even uh the we did that that fantastic interview with uh Hetfield backstage at Rogers Arena that time. And I don't know what happened to that one because that was one of my favorite interviews that I've ever done. Because he's just, you know, he's uh we all know he's he's uh he's James Fucking Hetfield, he's one of the greatest guys who didn't have doesn't have to be a great guy if he doesn't want to be. But he's just they're all those fucking guys are so cool, it's just unbelievable.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, right on. So I have a question uh about uh well you you were you were speaking with Dean Blendell uh about four weeks ago, and that was a great uh great interview. Um I obviously I I'm not that familiar with Dean. I know he's been on the air for quite a while, and you've known each other for quite a few years.
SPEAKER_02So Dean, just to just a heads up, Dean Dean was a morning guy at the edge in Toronto for about 15 years or something like that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, cool. Anyways, right right from the get-go, he's he starts calling you brother Bill. And I'm like, so my my question is unless I was fucking oh no, no, it's nothing bad, but okay, you know, I had never heard that before. Like we had worked together for quite a few years. Um I don't did you ever really use that nickname out here? Yeah, so I didn't think so because I'd never heard of it. So where does that come from?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, okay. Well, I I'll tell you why you didn't hear brother Bill out here because there was a brother Jake. Okay. So when I got the job, um, Jeff Woods, who hired me, yeah, said, you know, there's a brother Jake in Vancouver. And I said, I know brother Jake is absolutely. And he said, Well, what do you want to do? Because I'm a little concerned that there's a brother Bill and a brother Jake. Got it. And I just I didn't even hesitate. I said, Well, I know who that guy is, he's a legend. And I said, What everybody should do in my position, like a professional athlete, you know, when you're playing with Wayne Gretzky and you're also wearing nine number 99, you're giving up 99. Exactly. You know what I mean? You're giving it up, you don't even think about it. And that's what I said to Jeff. I said, Well, I'll use my my real name. Yeah, which is great too, because I always wanted, I never fucking like I got okay. So I'm 21 years old. I'm gonna do my first radio shift at CFNY in in Toronto, okay, and I'm I'm just this kid. I'm five minutes before I'm going on, I'm thinking to myself, Well, all these other guys at the station have names, Deadly Headley Jones, uh, Liverl Jive, all these names. So I thought, okay, Neil Morrison is so like doors Neil Young, it's not for it's an alt rock station. I'm like, I need something else. So I just brother Bill came up with it really fast, and it stuck with me for 16 years. Wow, that's up. 16 years. I'm like, I hated it. So the when Jeff called me and said there's a brother Jake, okay. So yeah, I obviously would give it up because it's brother Jake, but I I was thrilled. I was like, no, I'll use my real name. Yeah, totally cool because the format at the edge in Toronto and and C Fox slightly different, yeah. C Fox is more um more mainstream, shall we say, rock, uh, active rock, modern rock mix, whereas CFNY was really alt. Definitely, yeah. We didn't play Metallica out east. We didn't, you know, that was too rock for for for the edge. Yeah, so you know, again, but yeah, that's I that's how I got I got the name. I the the actual bill was like when I was in college, I used to have blonde spiky hair, so the Billy Idol part. Oh, okay. And brother was was a combination of things. I like to tell people it's from the bad religion song, brother. You better get down on your knees and pay a thousand more fools have been born every fucking day. But being real, it was about these four or five girls that I went to school with, and they used to call me brother all the time, like their brother. Yeah, so that's where that came from.
SPEAKER_05Okay, there you go. All right, that makes sense, and yeah, and yeah, the bro Jake thing. Uh that yeah, that's I never even thought of that. Um, and and and but that makes sense.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Jake was really appreciative, uh appreciative of that. Um, and it was it was good for me. I mean, I I came out, I didn't know anybody, I knew Brother Jake was, I knew you know that he was uh a big name out out in Vancouver at that time, yeah. And uh, and so he was thrilled that I was willing to go back to my name like that, and we got along really well because of it. And I think it it helped me out when I first got out here for sure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, correct me if I'm wrong, you did go to radio school with uh O'Neal, didn't you? Yeah, yeah. So you knew of it, Jeff, before you showed up into Vancouver. Did you talk to him before? Oh, I look who you are.
SPEAKER_02I knew who Jeff was by name, like by reputation. The only person at Sea Fox I knew uh was Jeff O'Neill. Okay, uh, because he's sort of the he's the guy at Sea Fox, he's the man, like the the way Larry and Willie were in the 1990s, Jeff was in 2002, and even today. Um, but I didn't know we went to college together until I was at his house for dinner when I first moved out here, and there was a picture of him with two people we went to college with on his mantle. So I was I'm sitting there looking around his house, and I say, Why do you have a picture of my friends Dave and Franca on your mantle over there? And he's like, Because I went to school with them. And I said, No, you fucking didn't, because I went to school with them, and that's how I found out that O'Neill and I went to school together because he jobbed out uh I think even before the first year ended. In other words, he left because he had a job up in Capus Casing or wherever he's from, up that way in Ontario. So I know we were two separate classes at that time, and then we second year we all went down into one, and then third year, you know, smaller and smaller. But um, so Jeff was in another class, but my friends Dave and Franca ended up being in my class year two. That's why it freaked the shit out of me when I was at his house. Wow, like I thought it was a joke. I thought it was a joke. I thought he was playing a joke on me. I'm like, why is there a picture of Dave and Frank on you? Really bizarre. So, anyway, that's that so I didn't know Jeff until I got here, but I did know his name. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, that is a great story. That's cool. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Jeff, Jeff's uh Jeff's a great guy, man. I got nothing but great things to say about that dude.
SPEAKER_03I learned everything I know from Jeff O'Neill.
SPEAKER_02So guy who are a legend, yeah. You're lucky. Uh that's a guy that you want to learn from. He's just a guy that knows I mean, I'm I so the one thing that I tell everybody, especially some of my friends from back east who I worked in the business with up back there, you know, they asked me what the differences are between Toronto and Vancouver and stuff, you know, as far as the on-air staff went. And I I always was straight up and said, you know, the on-air staff in Vancouver was way better than the on-air staff in Toronto, as far as overall, uh we kind of in Vancouver we sort of Sea Fox, we sort of pushed each other to be better. In Toronto was all ego driven, and you couldn't, you know, everybody had their own thing going on, whether it was good, whether it was average, or whether it was fucking terrible. And there was some people that were really bad.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02Uh Vancouver, I remember first coming out because they were just they wanted to show me around in 2004. I started there, and so they flew me out a couple of times. And I remember listening to Scott Allen uh on the afternoon weekend shift, and I couldn't believe how fucking good he was. Like I was listening to this guy going, This is their afternoon guy on a weekend. So, what does the rest of the fucking staff sound like? And you know, it's you know, I re I just had to listen to it back then. I rest my case. Oh just like solid broadcasters, solid. Yeah, Adam's no, yeah, I think so. Some noise going on in the back, so I had to close the window.
SPEAKER_03Yep, dog barking.
SPEAKER_02Where so where do you oh no, we can't get into that right now. Sorry. I was gonna say, where do you live now? But that's a little bit of a problem with the folks too, my girlfriend. She let me put this up back here. Nothing else in our place. You'd even know I worked in radio. You wouldn't fuck, you wouldn't know.
SPEAKER_03I get to the laundry room, where the fuck are you?
SPEAKER_02So I'm in my laundry room, yeah. So this is this is what I've been allowed to do. I've been allowed to put a couple pictures up in the laundry room. I've got some soundproofing that I've got to set up. I've got to get I've got all the soundproofing I'm gonna do so it doesn't sound so hollow. But this is basically my room. Everything else in this place? No, it's looking all adult, all nice. You wouldn't even know I lived here.
SPEAKER_05That's a that's a pretty big fucking laundry room, let me say that right now. And I know, and again, uh going back to your your chat with Blundell, I it was I was gonna say, like, what kind of laundry room has pictures hanging on the walls? And now you've got this other stuff here. Uh, I mean, why don't you tell us about it? But but that's it's it looks it looks like a pretty sweet laundry room so far, anyway.
SPEAKER_02It's small, it's about eight feet long by about five feet wide, to be honest. What you're looking at behind me though, this here, let me try and figure this out. This here. There we go. That there was uh an award that I got when I left CFNY when I left the edge, uh, just basically saying how many hours I had worked on the air for 16 years. All right. The numbers made up, but it's like, look. Um, so that was that. This is me at our studios in Toronto, our outdoor studios on Young Street. That was taken by I can't remember who, and I'm looking all angry. And as as um Steve Parsons used to call me all the time when he was the promo or the program director of Rock 101, he called me Furious Neil Morrison. So that was me looking furious. I don't know if you can see that. And this was my first uh and only um platinum award I was given by uh the guys in Our Lady Peace in 1994 for their Navid album. Oh, that's um it sold 100,000 records, and I was pretty proud of that because that was one of those bands that I didn't I didn't think they were gonna make it, to tell you the truth. Um, they weren't very good live when they started in the early 90s. Not gonna not gonna sugarcoat it, they were pretty bad. Yep, but they did the right thing, and that's they put them on the road forever, you know, and then they just slowly got better and better and better. I mean, Jeremy Taggart, the drummer, was 18 at the time, you know, they were kids, they were all kids, and and and I promoted the shit out of them because I believed in the album. It was an album I went home and listened to in 1994. Uh and so they they one day walked into the studio and gave me that. And that's that's the only one I've ever received. That's it. Wow, yeah. I used to have in my old place, I've just moved into this place now, but in my old place when it was Bachelor City, I know what you're saying there, Adam. That was Bachelor City. Um, I had uh I stole, I shouldn't say that. I I borrowed a a vinyl uh platinum record for the band Toronto. Oh wow that was presented to Seafox and it was sitting in the production studio, the one he used to work out of Adam. Yep, when you were doing the O'Neill show, it was in there and I took it home and I hung it on my wall for like 10 years. But the girlfriend once again gave me the kibosh on that, and it sits in a landfill in Delta now.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, just like my career. That's oh it's not that bad.
SPEAKER_05That that stuff is pretty pretty tough though. I've got tons of posters that I've purchased over the years and stuff like that too. And I'd love to hang them up, but uh I think I feel pretty fortunate to get away with having my CD and vinyl collection on display. I think I think the uh pictures and posters would would be pushing it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, uh yeah, I I I hear you. And you know what, it's it's all without getting too heavy on you, it's it's all your memories anyway. You know what I mean? That's true. Like people can come over and they can take a look at all this shit and and then go, hey, what's that? And you tell them, but at the end of the day, it's your memories, it's not theirs. So I'm cool with this stuff being back here, and and I think it makes a nice backdrop, to tell you the truth.
SPEAKER_05That's about it. It does, uh, for sure. It definitely warms warms the place up.
SPEAKER_03So I think both of you guys are pussies and need to put your foot down.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and that's why you're single, buddy. Yeah, there you there you go. It's all about compromise. I will go on my own terms, damn it. It's all about compromise, man. Let me tell you. It is for sure. You know, it's uh you learn pretty quick. You learn pretty quick that uh things are pretty good, and yeah, you look at the the you look at the options and before you and you say, hmm, I think I can change it up my lifestyle up a little bit and make this work. And uh you will one day, my friend. I'm leaving this. Hey, isn't this show called Old Guy Staring at Clouds?
SPEAKER_04It's almost that conversation.
SPEAKER_03We we've almost come to that point. So no, you've left the radio industry, you've tweeted a message. What are you doing now with your life? What's your nine to five looking like these days?
SPEAKER_02Again, I'm just trying to think what I can say, what I can't say, but oh yeah, sent without without, you know, I mean, fortunately enough, you guys have 15 viewers, so I think I'm okay. Um but besides so I was laid off in again in um March. Yep, and um I've had one text message from the owner of the radio station I worked at after I sent him an email saying after the I mean it's a weird year, right? With with CERB and all that stuff. So, you know, before the way it works is if you get laid off after I think 13 weeks, they have to tell you whether or not it's a permanent layoff or not. And nobody's told me anything. Okay, so I reached out after about 18 weeks and I said, Hi, I'm prepared to come back, or can we make this permanent and can I get what I'm owed? And we all move on. And to which that email, which was sent in July, got a text back from the owner saying, Thank you very much, received your email. And I've heard nothing since. Yeah. Um, so I had to do what I had to do, but I can't remember why I'm going down this avenue and telling you guys this story. Oh, you were wondering what I was doing. There we go.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, what are you doing now? What's your nine to five?
SPEAKER_02I uh I work for the BC government. Cool. Yeah, yeah. I I'm working uh temporarily selling liquor. I just it just sounds so much better when I say I'm working for the BC government.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I did so that's uh that was quite impressive, right? Right up good good for you.
SPEAKER_02I'm thinking, yeah, it sounds good. Um it sounds good, and actually it's not a bad job. It's a C I'm working seasonally for the liquor store, BC liquor store down here.
SPEAKER_05That's all right. I'm sure, I'm sure they pay pretty good, it pays the bills, and there's nothing wrong with that.
SPEAKER_02I thought I mean I could, I was gonna say I I could have probably written, I mean, I'm still doing EI as well because they're not giving me enough hours because you have to start at the bottom and work your way up. But yeah, but the job itself, I like what I'm doing, but I'm really happy uh to kind of push it back at you guys. I'm really happy to hear that both of you guys are working because you know, I know Steven, especially you, you had a tough time when you got let go. Yeah, took a long time for you get it to get to get back into a job that you wanted to do, for sure, didn't it? Didn't it? And I thought you like I said in the messages we went back and forth, I thought you had gone to Alberta. I thought you'd move back to Alberta. Yeah, but you didn't do that.
SPEAKER_05No, still here, still here. Never, never I shouldn't say we never thought about it because we did, because I was looking at all options and we were thinking of leaving Vancouver for a while, and you know, things were really tough. That was a really shitty year and a half for me. Um, like I said, I didn't I wasn't prepared to be laid off. Uh, I did receive some severance, so obviously I kind of did fuck all for two or three or four months and uh took the summer off because I could. Uh but once I got back on the job search again, it was really tough going, and it was probably one of the worst experiences in my life. It really sucked. Yeah, it's really humbling, it's really shitty. Yeah, it's really depressing at times to be turned down. And the thing is, it's not only it's not just getting turned down, it's actually hearing nothing at all about your job applications. Like you would receive no response at all, like absolutely none. And that really sucked.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, especially when you have a resume like you do. I mean, it's not like you're not qualified for positions. I mean, for sure. I mean, uh what what I do is I I talk on the radio for a living. Yeah. There's unfortunately not uh a huge market for that. Yeah. Um, you know, jobs don't come up come available that often when they do, you know, look at the look at the talent pool that's going for them now. Yeah, especially in Vancouver. You know, so I've had to reinvent as well, and everybody has. I mean, I know Adam as well. I know when you got let go, I was I was feeling bad for you because I didn't know what you were gonna do either, man. But I know that you, you know, you can play the drums and you got a little, you're pretty good at product, you're very good at production work. And I thought, okay, there's got to be something out there for you, but you're not even working in the field either anymore.
SPEAKER_03No, just because there's no work. Yeah. And everyone you try to get work from, you would get low balls.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And there's just no point. You can't live off 30 grand a year. It just doesn't work, especially in bigger.
SPEAKER_02No, exactly. Um and and you mentioned lowballing. I mean, there was a there was a female broadcaster who used to work at CKNW, um, who I pushed and pushed and pushed to get to come over to the station I was working at to be my co-host. And they lowballed her so badly that it basically got out, you know, to to to within the radio industry.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And um, and that's the reputation now, unfortunately, that this place has that they don't pay and they don't like to pay. And um, they're gonna pay. Yeah, yeah. They're gonna pay. Yeah, they're gonna have to pay. So, you know, it's unfortunate, but that's just this market, and that's radio right now. And again, I'm glad both you guys are at least working because definitely, yeah. I'm getting your internet connection is unstable. Uh, we can hear you okay now, anyway.
SPEAKER_05So, yeah. Okay, no problem.
SPEAKER_02As long as you as long as you can hear me okay for sure. If it does cut out, it might be me again. No problem, it's all good. We'll we'll figure it out. Okay, anything else? What else we need to cover?
SPEAKER_05Well, uh let's see, go for it, Adam.
SPEAKER_03Uh well, I just since we're back on radio, uh, I just want to know what you think of the current state of radio. We touched on it a little bit, but you I mean you you've been on the radio broadcasting for 26 years, and you know, the heart and soul lies for you know, morning shows. Morning shows are the heart and soul. Uh, and besides everything else, the you know, date, I don't know if day parts exist anymore. I don't really know how it works. Like you got the people working, you know, the the like middays and the drives and the evening shows, but they're being told what to do. So I want to know what you think and how you would make it better. Or is it a really dying breed? Is it something that people should just give up on?
SPEAKER_02No, I don't think people need to give up on it. I don't think it's uh it's dead, um, or dying a slow death, like a lot of people say it is. It needs a rethink, uh, for sure, because the traditional way radio is run and done is the same that it's been since radio was, you know, rock radio anyway was invented in the 1950s and 60s. It hasn't changed. Um, morning shows are not the be-all and end all of radio stations. That's what the programmers need to get through their heads as well. Four hours a day does not dictate your radio station. Four hours a day is important, the most important because it's the morning drive. People are driving to work, but you know, forgetting afternoons, forgetting middays, forgetting evenings, forgetting overnights to me is a mistake. Um, but I also see why, because I can tell you for a fact, after having conversations with people in the industry today who are in management, the revenues are not even close to what they used to be because there's a battle for everybody's dollar now uh between social media, uh various other marketing platforms, and um and TV and and look at print, print's die and print.
SPEAKER_05Print print is in rough shape for sure. People talk about radio, but print is I don't even why know why people bother anymore. And there's some great people out there, of course. Um, I mean, not it's got nothing to do with people's jobs. I know people's jobs are at stake, but just the platform itself, it's just like why does the does really do you still read a newspaper? Like, why? It's it's history at that point, it's history, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Exactly.
SPEAKER_05Like going to it's all on air or or online, right?
SPEAKER_02So yeah, the the only person I know reads a newspaper is my 92-year-old mother.
SPEAKER_05That's it. And my parents still love it too, but otherwise, most people today they just like uh why why bother?
SPEAKER_02Exactly, and it's the same for you know, even the six o'clock news when I was growing up, Stephen. When you were growing up, Adam, probably when you're growing up too. Yeah, family used to stop for the six o'clock news. Yeah, now um I watch it out of habit, but I already know the stories that they're telling because I've already heard about them on Twitter earlier in the day. So again, that's another thing. So the good thing, I guess, with radio is is the fact that you are more you're not breaking stories unless you're news talk station. So you're basically talking about the big stories of the day, uh, what your your demographic, your audience are into. So you can still do that. Radio still gives you ability to do that in 45 seconds or less, unfortunately. That needs to change, they need to give them a little bit more freedom to chat. We don't need to hear the hot, hot heat single five times a day. We don't. We just we people want to hear music, they can go to their iPod or sorry, think of their iPod, they can go to their phone, they can go to Spotify, whatever, they can go there, but they can't replace the voices. You know what I mean? You can't change the voices. So by by again, it comes back to the dollar because you only have so much in your budgets now, and the budgets shrink, shrink, shrink, shrink, shrink. You know, so I understand both sides, and I'm kind of really wishy-washy with my answer, but I guess when it comes down to it, Adam, I don't I don't think radio is dead. Okay, but it needs a serious rethink and it needs to be it needs to be given back to the people who love radio, not the people who love money.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Um that's it's obviously changed, and there probably aren't that many on-air personalities making half million dollars, or maybe that's a little much, but obviously many are working or making six figures, right? And I know those days are maybe coming to an end, but that's probably a good thing because really, should your your top staff really be do they really deserve to be getting paid that much money? I mean, I I to me it doesn't make sense, and that's maybe where radio went wrong for a while.
SPEAKER_02I don't know, but it's a lot of money. You mean the the management side of things? Are you talking about on air?
SPEAKER_05Okay, so uh not just uh I guess I guess I was referring to on air, but of course management too. But so definitely on air. I was referring to on air personalities. Yeah, that's a lot of money to be giving somebody. I know they are the voice of the station or face of the station in today's world, I guess, of the internet and video and stuff, but right that's a shitload of money to be giving somebody a half million dollars.
SPEAKER_02You know what, you know what else is you know what else is shitty though, is having to make people wake up at three o'clock in the morning. That's true. Let me tell you something. So let me tell you something, Steven. The worst part about doing radio was getting up at three o'clock in the morning. I I don't know how morning, like guy like O'Neill who's been doing it for what 15 15 plus years now. Yeah, you used to do it for 11, 13 years every day up at 3:30. That's that's the worst, and you should be compensated for that. Um you have well, you have to understand that there is one person always at every radio station who is essentially the face of the radio station. It's Jeff. Yeah, um, at Rock 101, it's Willie. Yeah, yeah. At uh CKW, it's similar now. Um, you know, uh at the other radio stations, you know, everybody's got their person that stands out. Yeah, yeah, I guess I can understand the argument of why they get paid so much. I mean, I've just always come from that side, and I've always thought, well, it's nice to know that that kind of money is there if you're willing to make that kind of sacrifice. I mean, the the true story about being an on-air personality in radio is you're always on, um, especially at the major markets. Um, you are not allowed, or so I thought anyway, until I moved to Vancouver, because see, I left Toronto doing drive. I was doing the afternoon show, and on my getting ready to come on to jump on a plane to fly to Vancouver to come work at Sea Fox, I got a call from Jeff Woods again saying, By the way, you know you're not the afternoon guy, right? You're the midday guy. And I'm like, Oh, I tell me, okay, and I thought, okay, well, that's all right because it's an easier shift, you know. And they were they were still paying me drive money. I was like, oh, okay, well, fine. Then I realized after not so long that okay, because I was making drive money, there's a target on my back. In other words, when the cuts start happening, I'm no longer the guy that's been able to get under the carpet for so many years because he never made any money. Um, you know, and and again, we're not talking six figures or anything like that. We're talking about reasonable money.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And uh, but that's not why I got into radio. I didn't get into right radio to make money. That's that's not the reason why I want to do radio. But anyway, so I had come here to do the to the midday show and they gave it to me. And I remember one of the first days I was working, I came into Dunner's office and I sat down. He was the program director or assistant program director at the time, and I said, So what do I need to do now? Because in Toronto, when you were done, they told you what you were gonna be doing that night. Okay. In other words, hey, there's a band playing at the horseshoe tavern. Yeah, we're gonna go see them. So you were just expected as the personality to be there to make the scene. Yeah, I was surprised when I came to Vancouver and I said that to Dunner, what do I need to do now? And he said, Go home. And uh, I was like, Wow, go home. Okay, wasn't used to doing that, yeah. And that was a good thing, but it was also a bad thing as well for me, uh, in my personal life, um, because I didn't know what to do with my time. Yeah, and when you don't know what to do with your time, and you're a rock jock living in Yale town, bachelor, you're gonna meet some people you probably shouldn't have met. And that's what happened to me. And uh, and so anyway, um it was it was nice to be able to not have to be out every night, but also when you're used to a certain way of life, you know, it's kind of what you what you did. But when you're doing middays, you can't really do it because you got to be up at six or seven in the morning to go to work the next day. So it's not like like when Hancock was doing drive, he could go out to the Commodore afterwards, see a band, you know, get home at two in the morning and not be up until while he had kids, so he was still up, but you know, uh that's just an expectation of that shift, whereas middays maybe not so much. I hope that answered that for sure.
SPEAKER_05No, no, no, you you did for sure. And and again, I'm I was always behind the scenes, and I you know, I I saw you guys at work and stuff all day, but I didn't actually have to experience that. I didn't have to be up at three in the morning, that's for damn sure. So uh I've done my sheriff night shifts in the past, and I know it's not fun, and uh I don't want to go there again. So the other thing too is I yes, I know they're like I said, they're the face of the personality, those those main personalities bring in a lot of the advertising dollars. So I I totally get that. Uh I totally understand that. Uh I guess there's just such a big extreme between your top people and then those people at the bottom of the barrel who are doing just as much work, really. They are, and if not more, it just it just yeah, and it just doesn't seem fair. I think that's that's the thing that kind of irks me a little bit about the whole thing.
SPEAKER_02So agreed, agreed. But you know, I can tell you for a fact that myself there was some dues to be paid too. I mean, I was uh please don't take this the wrong way, Adam, but I was Adam Baldwin for many years, yeah. You know, and you gotta work your way up, and I didn't get paid at all. Yeah, you know, that generation that we came up on, we watched the guys above us making tons of money, and we we were the guys who ran coffee and did that for years and just got lucky. I was lucky because I wasn't getting paid very much money, I was making less in average money for the position I was in when I was doing Drive and hosting a show called Live in Toronto. That I think I was making less money than probably um the the midday person at Sea Fox would have been making at that time. Yeah, um, so it that's that's it's not great, but and I was living in a basement apartment, just to put it in perspective. But it that's not great, but it it allowed me to survive when the cutbacks started because the cutbacks have been happening since I mean, I started in on the air at 1990. The first cutback that I saw was in 1992, when 17 people from the radio station I worked at lost their jobs in one day. Yeah, one day. So it's not like this has been happening over the last couple of years. This has been happening forever in radio. But the thing is, like we talked about earlier, and that is you we're no longer cutting into the fat, we're now cutting into the the lean part of the of the of the the industry now. So people are losing their jobs who really should not be losing their jobs, you know. Morning shows come and go, and that's the way it goes. I mean, I feel bad for Karis losing her job, yeah, yeah. Of course. Uh that that sucks because she's talented. The two people that she was working with were horrible. It was a horrible morning show. I'm gonna be straight up, listen to it. And it was terrible, it was a terrible show, and and I'm not surprised because I know who those two guys are, and and they never should have been put in that position in the first place. Karis shouldn't have been teamed up with them, she was too good for them. Yeah, and uh, and anyway, I don't know why I went down on that tangent, but you get me going. That's the fat. That's about the fat. You got to cut the fat, and yeah, yeah. That there we go. So, okay, so so yeah, so I mean, some tons of people that have been let go. Like, I'm just surprised. I mean, Steven, I wouldn't why would Steven Durgas get let go? There was nobody doing what you were doing there. I think the the girl you sat across from maybe did a little bit of crossover between what you were doing, but essentially that was that gig. It's not like that gig they did they bring somebody up, did they replace you or did they just eliminate the position?
SPEAKER_05They eliminated the position, yeah. Well, and that's and that's the thing, it you know, it's a digital world now, right? Everything's online, there's social media, like everything. So, and again, I'm not I'm not complaining, I'm not sore, I'm not trying to like it's it's hey, that was a long time ago, no big deal, right? And I'm I'm in a better place now. But you know, again, at the time you think about it, like, why'd why did this happen? Like, why me? And uh um everybody thinks that everybody thinks that that whenever it happens to you, that's that's right. So I know it's not me. I didn't take it personally, um, even though maybe at the time I was trying to figure things out and and stuff, but but you know, whatever. It's it things don't make sense sometimes, and you just kind of kind of pick up and move on.
SPEAKER_02So and and and the radio business is the number one thing for uh why did this happen? And you know, but it happens, it's happened to everybody, and it'll happen to everybody in the industry at least once. Yeah, it'll keep happening, yeah. Ed Garcia, God love him too, great guy working at C Fox. His day will come too. Guy named Alan Cross back east said something that I originally I heard him on a podcast talking about, and it pissed me off when he first said it. And then I realized then I realized he was right, and that is that every person in the broadcasting business has a best before date on their forehead. And uh you will cross that that uh that that that uh your your day will come and it happens to everybody, whether you're on air, whether you're working in promotions, whether you're working production, whatever you're doing, if you're doing the social media stuff, it happens to everybody.
SPEAKER_05And I didn't realize that obviously I I didn't have a radio background. Uh, I was not, I didn't go to broadcasting school or anything like that. I was completely new to radio, I was excited. Uh, so I never knew any of this stuff. So I just I was really shocked about a lot of different things, you know. You learn some things along the way, and um that's a good analogy or a good way to put it about the best before date, but yeah, you still never think it's gonna happen to you. So uh no, you never do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but it's funny because um like I got let go, excuse me, I got let go um in June of 2014. Wow, was it really? Yeah, six years ago. Yeah, uh, and so remember chorus? I don't know if you guys remember, but chorus used to put out uh like a uh propaganda magazine, as I called it. That's a good way to put it, yeah, and all the great things that they were doing, orphans fund, blah blah blah, and all this pink shirt day, blah blah blah. Yeah, great. And then uh down one side you had like the total, all the employees and how many years they'd worked at Chorus. So you didn't have actual names, but you had five-year club, and you'd see like 18,265 employees, and it would go 10 years and then 15, then 20, then 25. So, like I said, five-year club, 18,000, and something, something, something. Yeah, I was in my 25th year and I remember looking down and seeing 25-year club 203. Wow, and I'm thinking that's a big difference between 18,000 and 200. Yeah, so as soon as I saw that, I knew it was a matter of time before my number would come up. So when my number did come up when I got called into Ronnie's office, it was so funny because I sat down, it was him and Dustin Collins, and I sat down and I looked at both of them and I said, Oh, well, HR's not here, so I'm not getting fired. Well, exactly. That that, you know what, Adam? That was exactly the face of Lady. Well, to tell you the truth, and then I looked over at Dustin, he was sitting on the couch, and Dustin's like, Oh, yeah, Dustin, you know, and I was just like, and it didn't surprise me. Uh initially, obviously a shock because 26 years, you're like, wow, for sure, I can't do what I've done for 26 years anymore. But when I was catching the SkyTrain back down to my car in uh Richmond there, I just remember thinking, okay, because I had Dustin had said there's gonna be about a year and a half's worth of severance there, you're gonna be okay, or you'll get paid for a year and a half. Yeah, yeah, they wouldn't give, they don't give anybody their full severance unless they fight them on it, uh, which is a probably another good thing for me that they didn't do that. So um, but I I knew okay, I'm gonna have a year and a half to kind of figure out what I'm gonna do. And uh, and so I thought it was June, so I'm taking the rest of the summer off. There we go. But then, you know, it's so funny because um I had a couple conversations with radio people at other radio stations, thought it was gonna be easy to get another job, and then Christmas came, I still wasn't working, and then June came and I still wasn't working. It was a year later, yeah, and then I'm like, and I started realizing I'm gonna have to get this podcast off the ground if I'm gonna do anything, and I tried to get that going. That didn't work, and so I, you know, um it was quite the struggle for a long time, especially when the severance ran out. What do I do now? Yeah, you know, and uh hindsight looking at it, the the the worst uh the best thing I could have done is I could have right away, as soon as I got let go, I should have looked at online courses for something else to do, and I should have retrained myself. And that's what I regret I didn't do that. I should have retrained because you know, where where we're at in the radio industry right now is I mean, when does a job come up? Man, once a year, maybe you know, there's that morning job at Jack right now, they'll probably bring some people in to cover various markets, not just Vancouver. Um, they don't have a drive person. I've talked to them about that. They don't seem to care that they don't have an announcer, even though I say how the fuck can you expect to compete in Vancouver against the likes of Robin LaRose and Dean Hill when you don't have an announcer. Yeah, you know, and so anyway, they they still think that they can do it without it.
SPEAKER_05So yeah. Well, you're never too young, you know. You you we we talk about being old, but you know, you can still take some courses. Uh people are learning online every day, no matter how old you are. And it's uh it is a great way to kind of pick up on things, and it's sometimes difficult to kick your ass to get it started, but uh, but it uh it can definitely pay dividends and it can make things make a big difference down the road.
SPEAKER_02Well, I I again I I'm lucky, and maybe this happened to you too, Stephen, to be completely honest. But I mean we we we have partners. I mean, my my my girlfriend um is a registered nurse who just happens to work for the Center of Disease Control. She's not losing her job anytime soon. Oh, definitely not no kidding. No, and uh, and so it's been she's been so great with me because I have been about as unstable, you know, financially and job wise since I've met her, since I've known her. And she's been totally supportive saying you just keep going and do what you need to do, and I'm here to help you.
SPEAKER_05That's awesome. That helps.
SPEAKER_02I yeah, I couldn't. I couldn't I couldn't do that without I couldn't have done that without her. I don't know where I'd be without her. So yeah, getting too heavy. Oh no.
SPEAKER_05Not a problem. Hey, I have a couple things here, or one thing to talk about. And Adam doesn't like to talk about sports. So uh fuck. I I'm sometimes uh twiddling my thumbs, you know, what are we gonna talk about next? And and shit like that. So it's good to have somebody else on who is uh you know a more of a sports fan. Sorry, Adam.
SPEAKER_03I like the Canucks and I like WWE wrestling. Oh you don't like talking about that shit.
SPEAKER_05No, I don't. Wrestling can fuck off.
SPEAKER_02Anyway, I know what sport are we talking about here, though?
SPEAKER_05Well, I know I know you're a big hockey fan, and you're a big Maple Leafs fan, really, aren't you? Sorry about that, by the way, but but yeah, you are born a loser, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um I um I I'm you know born and raised in Toronto, obviously. I've lived there for 36 years, so yeah, I'm uh pretty diehard Leaf fan. Um I I I will be honest with you though, Steven. The older I get, the less I I really focus on sport because sport sport when I was growing up was all about playing hockey and scoring goals, and yeah, you know, now it's about how much does this person make, you know, how's it gonna affect the cap, blah blah blah. Anyway, that's stuff I don't pay attention to anymore. For sure. Um but I yeah, I am a I'm uh I I'm I'm a Toronto fan through and through. I mean, um yeah, it's it's so weird coming to a different city where they have their own team. Uh, and you know, seeing people wearing Canucks jerseys all over the place was really weird for me when I first got here. I was like, wow, and then I'd see a guy with like a leaf shirt on, and I'd be like, Well, that guy's gonna get beaten up. Yeah, anyway, what was the question though?
SPEAKER_05So, well, my question, a couple things, I guess. Uh yes, I know you're a Maple Leafs fan. So a couple, you know, what uh what did you think of the hockey in the bubble this past postseason? I guess. Did you watch much hockey? And I guess the no, okay. And the second thing is have you been following the off-season moves by the Maple Leafs? And do you think they're gonna be a better team this year whenever that season starts? I don't know. No, hey, those are those are pretty simple answers, right on.
SPEAKER_02That that Stephen, that the the Toronto Maple Leafs. I can't believe we're talking about this, but okay. But this team, this team, um on paper, if you want to talk on paper, is it's the best best Toronto Maple Leafs team I've ever seen. Yeah, and yet they still can't get by the fucking first round of the playoffs. Like it's just like unbelievable. Columbus, they lose to Columbus, yeah. Like, come on, really, or the Bruins, of course.
SPEAKER_05So I'd love to. I'm a Bruins fan. I don't know if you remember that. I know you are.
SPEAKER_02Uh but I know you are so uh so the Boston Bruins so the Boston Bruins when I was growing up were a team I really liked because they would play the Montreal Canadians every year, yeah, usually in the final, and they'd lose, and I'd feel so freaking bad for them. And uh and then they started winning games, and and you know what, I don't mind the Boston Bruins. I never have, I just don't like Marchant and nobody does because he's the guy that you know you want playing for your team, but otherwise he's a fucking jerk, and nobody likes him, you know. But uh, so I've I've always never had a problem with the Bruins, to tell you the truth. Um, but I I I really found myself getting behind the Canucks in 2011 when they did that run. Um, I know that you didn't, Steven, you were still a Bruins fan. That's right. But when when Alex Burroughs scored that goal against Chicago and uh Shorty said they've slayed the dragon, I mean who wouldn't get caught up in that, right? I mean, as a Leafs fan, I was totally caught up in that. And that was I've never obviously being from Toronto, I'm not used to watching a long playoff run. I mean, it was just so cool to live out here and watch this team get better and better as the playoffs went on. Unfortunately, they ran into the Bruins, who were a slightly better hockey team. Yeah, and uh and that's too bad. That I mean, I I've been I was in Toronto when the Jays won the World Series twice, but I can tell you that uh it doesn't feel the same as as being in Canada when I excuse I'm losing my voice. It doesn't uh feel the same as being in Canada when your hockey team is is making a run at it. It just I couldn't it's it's I try and explain people to people back east what it was like when the Canucks did that run. It's just it's you can't explain it. Just everybody remember that everybody was talking hockey, yeah. Everybody, you know, so yeah, for sure. I mean, as far as the leaves go, the leaves on paper should be uh contender, but there is, and I honestly believe this there is a pressure playing in Canada that you don't have in the United States, yeah. You know, you leave the rink in the United States for the most part, and there's hockey. What's hockey? You know what I mean? Whereas uh you live, breathe, sleep, whatever hockey in Canada. So when you're playing for a Canadian team, it's probably five times as hard to be successful as it is playing in uh Tampa or Nashville or Phoenix. You know what I mean? It just it just you know, I mean, maybe Vegas would be comparable. I don't know. I'm I'm not sure. But playing in Canada, playing hockey in Canada is a is a different thing altogether. And I I we had some NHL guys we used to hang around with who played for the Leafs. There was one guy who was a fourth liner who had a crush on our midday girl, and he's there all the time. And even he would say that to us, he'd be like, you know, playing in Toronto is like totally different than even playing in Winnipeg, because even in Winnipeg, they're talking about it, but you're not under a microscope either the way you are in Toronto, right? Yeah, I mean, I maybe Boston would be about as close to playing in Canada if you're playing in the US, or because they're New York or New York or Chicago.
SPEAKER_05New York's pretty big. Yeah, those those I think those original six teams were you know, just because hockey has been around so so long, they're probably um up there, but still it's nothing like Toronto or Montreal. Like Montreal, I think, would be pretty shitty place to play hockey to if you're if you're losing if you're losing, exactly. Yeah, which which Montreal has been losing, well, not as not as much as Toronto. Sorry.
SPEAKER_02Glory, glory, hallelujah, though, man. Let me tell you something. So I don't even you can't even compare it. So the the the hatred that Canucks fans have for Leaf for the Leafs is almost matched by the hatred that the Hab fans have for Leaf fans, and vice versa. Fuck the Habs are like the Habs are my my most hated team. I cannot stand that friggin' franchise, but they have a one since '93, so I'm happy.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know, anyway.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's the same thing with Boston, of course. Boston, Montreal. That's probably well, I'm being a little biased here, but it's probably the biggest rivalry in all of sports, which is odd.
SPEAKER_02Which is odd because uh you look at baseball, yeah, and one of the biggest rivalries is the Yankees Red Sox. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, they they fucking hate each other. I'll never forget being in New York, watching this guy walking down the street with a t-shirt on that said in uh in Red Sox font on his shirt, it said Boston sucks. I was like, that's great, yeah, that's awesome. You know, and there's uh there's a there's a real hatred for towards each other. I went to Fenway Park in the 90s and saw the Red Sox play the Blue Jays. The only time I've ever been to a baseball field, a professional park, where I thought I was gonna get beaten up. Really? Wow, for wearing the colors, for flying Jays colors, yeah. Yeah, um, and even just being a Jays fan when the Jays, you know, the Jays were we went to all three games. I remember the first, it was it was a it was a run for the playoffs, and that Red Sox were up by like a game or something with five games left or something. And I remember the first game, the Jays were down like four-one, and they came back. And Junior Felix hit a three-runner, four-run, uh, three-run shot, and we took the lead five-four, and we got up and we're cheering, and we got friggin' pelted with like cans and cups. And I took a bagel in the side of the head with cream cheese, with cream cheese. Oh, nailed me right in the head. It could have been worse. It could have been worse. Wow, and I'll tell you, they were just vicious, like they weren't, you know, you know, you joke. I mean, when I'd go to the used to go to the Canucks games when the leaves were here, and it'd be like joking, ribbing back and forth, you'd laugh it off. They were serious there, man. They were like, Fuck you, we'll kill you.
SPEAKER_03Like, wow, yeah, no bagels to the side of the head.
SPEAKER_02No, it ended up on the ground. You don't touch when it hits the ground, Adam. Even if a baseball baseball field, everyone hits the ground, it's no touch now. No five-second rule. Yeah, you got it. But that those trips were great. So the beer companies used to pay for us to go on all these trips. So I I went to Cleveland and saw the only uh Blue Jays no-hitter in 1993 or something. It was Dave Steve. Yeah, only no-hitter the Toronto Blue Jays ever had. And I remember just being so drunk that I looked up and I wasn't even paying attention. And I and I looked up at the scoreboard and I saw zero, zero, zero. And I was like the eighth inning. I'm like, hey, this is a fucking no-hitter, and uh, sure enough, yeah, it was a no-hitter, but uh again, don't really remember because the beers, these these guys who worked at the Labat budgets back in those days. Again, these have all changed, obviously, too. Yeah, but their budgets back then were huge, man. They were they they you'd go on a trip with them and you'd have a beer from the moment you stepped on, like into the airport to the moment you stepped out. It was just crazy.
SPEAKER_05Wow, right on. Yeah, yeah. Fun times, yeah, things have changed for sure. So and and including sports, including sports, though, right? Yeah, no, that's okay. And and you're right, sports has changed a lot, and it's uh the games aren't the same, it is a lot about business. I and it's always been bit a business, but it just seems like nobody paid attention to the business side because we didn't have to, right? We enjoyed the games and and you didn't hear about all the shit going on in the background and locked up. No, and I don't like I don't care for it.
SPEAKER_02I don't I don't care for it. I mean, I I just think that professional athletes, what they get paid isn't is isn't is a joke. I mean, you talk about radio morning guys making money, yeah. I mean, you're gonna pay a guy like LeBron James, what you're gonna pay him. Okay, maybe I understand that a little bit because the guy is not only the face of his team, he's the face of NBA basketball. Yeah, so you gotta be paid for it. But you know, paying uh what's that guy, Fred Van Fleet or whatever, playing for the Raptors? That guy just re-signed. The guy's a fucking uh who is this guy? I'm like, I don't know who this guy is, he's not a brand, he's like some dude. Yeah, you're getting paid like 80 million a year. Like, fuck, you kidding me? So do you do do you just never like sports, Adam?
SPEAKER_03Is that what it was? I mean, I I followed it for work, obviously. I don't mind watching the home game, so I'll read for the Canucks and I'll read for the Seahawks because the closest NFL team, right? But and like the Cubs and the Mariners and stuff, but other than that, I could give two fucks. Why is that? Is it just not your thing? It's not my thing. I'd rather you know listen, play video games. So I'm the nerdy type, so I'll play video games and keep up on that side.
SPEAKER_02So you never grew up playing sports or anything like that.
SPEAKER_03I was in karate and I played roller hockey for a little while. Like I said, you weren't in sports, right? Hey, listen. Fuck you guys. Yeah, karate. Wow. I'll kick your ass.
SPEAKER_02So I grew up, I'm sure you would. Uh I grew up playing hockey and soccer my whole life. So yeah, I mean, that's one of the reasons why sports is just entwined into my DNA, I suppose. Steven, probably similar.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I was on skates at a really young age, and so hockey hockey was my thing. But even through school, I was really involved in all the sports. Uh, I mean, track and field, volleyball, basketball. And I'm not a tall guy, so I was, you know, considering my size, I think I still did quite well at those at those sports. But uh, yeah, it just seems like I was involved in everything and uh quite active all the time. And skiing, of course, was a big thing. Uh golfing, yeah. I just it seemed like I I did it all. Some of it I was good at, some of it maybe not so much, but yeah, but hey, it was pretty important part of my life. And maybe I wish it still was because I'm really fucking lazy now, I tell you.
SPEAKER_02This pandemic hasn't helped, so yeah, I haven't been to a gym since March. I can I I hear what you're saying. I used to be a fairly regular gym attendee, but living in White Rock, I mean, the only thing that's saving me is I've got these hills. Yeah, uh, so I'm walking up and down hills every day practically, just trying to stay active because yeah, yeah, and I you start getting a little older, all of a sudden you realize that you know, you start getting a little aches here and there, and oh yeah, you kind of you know what I'm talking about, Steven. And if you don't do something, man, it starts hurting a little bit, like yeah. Well, oh, the great thing I've discovered recently, you'll appreciate this, Adam. Oh C B D C B D oil. Oh, what brand are you taking? Oh uh so my buddy's brother makes has a company that so okay, so I I'm not really sure to tell you the truth. Yeah, I take I have one because I what happened to me was about three years ago I was in the gym and I first of all I tore my rotator cuff on uh the backside. Yeah, that was the first thing I did. That recovered, and then I tore the and a separate injury, I tore the pec minor, which is the my the the muscle that goes underneath your armpit. I tore it off the bone. Oh wow, yeah, and uh never never fully recovered from it, or I thought I didn't. I went of all things, I went salmon fishing one day, and I had a nice salmon on the line, and all of a sudden my arm just went caught fire. Oh fuck, and it's never been the same, and I've never been able to uh to repair it properly, and uh the only thing that's helping me out uh is CBD, and uh I'll tell you something. So I take a CBD for when I go to sleep because I just find that it takes the edge off, as it were, yeah. And then for my arm, uh in the morning I take a different CBD oil, and it's night and day, man. I can't, I can't, I know lots of people say it's a placebo, they don't believe it, but you know, everything works or doesn't work for you, yeah. And for me, man, the CBD is just like incredible. I'm blown away by how well it works, and I'm so glad it's legal.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's awesome. Have you tried compression gear? I'm moving around a lot. I'm walking 30, 40,000 steps a day, and I use I have orthotics in my shoes, I use compression pants, I have compression shirt, plus my know what that is. What's a compression shirt or pant? So, what it does is it's they're like tights, so you're wearing tights, okay. Tights help the blood flow, so it keeps your blood, it keeps your body warm. So even if you're not moving or working as hard, it keeps the blood flow. And even if you are moving and working hard, it keeps the blood flow going, so you don't get the buildup of fatty acids in your legs. Interesting. Interesting. So, where do you get where you where do you get that from? You can get them anywhere. Nike has a lot of good ones. Sport check has the under armor, all the main guys sell them. What's it called again? Just compression gear. Look up compression gear. I'm gonna absolutely start it down. There's a great brand called 2XU, they're online. 2XU, they have a bunch of shit and they have a cool science behind it. So they you can learn all you need to know through those guys, but their stuff is pretty expensive, but it's expensive and it works. I just bought like an $85 shirt for Black Friday, and um it it's night, like you said, it's night and day difference. Really? So much, you know. If I wasn't wearing the gear the whole day, I'd come home and pass up. But because I wear the gear all day and just take it off, it's just like a normal work day.
SPEAKER_02Wow, okay. I'll look into it for sure. Thank you for letting me know that. Steven, maybe you could uh maybe that'll inspire you, my friend.
SPEAKER_05Well, maybe I should wear some of this shit while I'm sitting on the couch uh in front of my laptop working all day. I don't know. Maybe you think you think that'll help the cat.
SPEAKER_03The cat.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, it might help. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Let's try petting the cat. Is that yeah, all right.
SPEAKER_02That's a metaphor. That's a metaphor. Let's move on. Stroking the clock. Let's move on, stroking nothing.
SPEAKER_03We could talk to you about stroking cats, we could talk to you about the radio business, but quickly took a turn for the worst there. Uh, what are you listening to these days, Neil? You have great taste in music. What three brands are you rocking out to these days?
SPEAKER_02Well, I mean, it's funny. I looked at my 2020 uh most listened to stuff, and it blew my mind that what I what I my top five was like, you know, social distortion, no effects, black flag, circle jerks, and I can't remember the other one. So that's all the punk stuff I grew up listening to. I didn't realize how much I was listening to it. I haven't really paid attention to a lot of new music. Um, that other radio station I worked at, which was the pop station, introduced me to some stuff that actually surprisingly blew my mind. Um, the one that stood out the most for me because I thought it I think he looks like a total idiot. Um, but Post Malone. Um, Post is good. That song Circles to me is like that's like an early Joy Division song. That's a fucking like bizarre. I can't believe it was pop music. When I started playing, I'm like, this has got to be wrong. This has got to be something that they put in here. That's but it is so that's that's you know, I don't know too much about Post Malone other than I think he looks like an idiot. But I saw him do that Nirvana stuff too about a year ago. You guys read, and that was really fucking good, man. So I got a lot of respect for that guy, despite what I think he looks like. Um, I I really kind of like that tool album, but I just can't, it's just not, I just don't think maybe it's the timing, I don't know. But it has it, but I'd also I say that, but I also think that it's got for me one of the most relevant tool songs I've ever heard on that album. It's called Invincible. You guys have heard that song? Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah. Like the lyrics in it are like, oh, okay, kind of my life guy in his 50s, you know, kind of on the the dark the other end of his career as far as radio goes. And anyway, I love that song, but the rest of the album, I mean, with the exception of the uh I think the first song is the title track. I don't like it, I think it's a pretty shit record. Yeah, there's no banger on that album.
SPEAKER_03There's no schism, there's no tools, there's no sober, oh no, or no sober, there's no 46 and 2, there's no jombies. Yeah, give the album a chance. I love the album, I still listen to it. Uh, Tempest, the last track of the album. Fucking deadly.
SPEAKER_02You know what? Yeah, that's not a bad tune either. But it's just it's it's a musical journey. Like, yeah, yeah, I don't know. I think I've I think we're all in we're all moving, you know what I mean? Like um, that's why bands become really famous for a little bit and they're gone. Because they, you know, I always compared it to like Star Trek or Star Trek. Do you remember that one Star Trek where there's the nebula or the nebulous or something, and it's that that line that's moving, and Captain Kirk gets stuck in it, and then Jean-Luc Picard does. It's called Generation, Star Trek Generations, anyway. So that's kind of like that's kind of like music for me. It's always moving, and you kind of catch it, and then it it's it then you're gone or it's gone. So, you know, with Tool, I like them for you know, their first five albums, or how many albums I got? Four or five, you know, from from 1993. Yeah, there you go. So the first five albums I love, but this album it just uh didn't do anything for me, with the exception of that song, which I think is one of their best. And then there's uh there's a great one of my favorite movie. Most guys say the Sha Shank Redemption, which is a good movie. But my favorite movie is a movie called It's All Gone, Pete Tong. I don't think any of you guys have seen that, either one of you guys.
SPEAKER_03Is it that dragon?
SPEAKER_02It's a story about a no, it's a story of a DJ who goes deaf. Okay, okay, and it was done by the same guys who did um Fubar. Oh, cool, okay. And uh, and yet nobody knows about this movie. It was uh shot in Abitha, Spain, and uh it's the story of a really famous DJ named Frankie Wilde, who's actually a made-up fictional DJ, but all the other big DJs of the time are in this. And uh and he goes deaf. And it's it's the story of how he reinvents himself as a DJ, a club DJ, despite going deaf. And in the opening, one of the opening scenes, as the credits are rolling in at the beginning, there's a band that I had to actually look up because it was so fucking cool. The intro. He's coming across the crowd on wires into the booth, dropping, he's dressed like Jesus. So that's it's pretty cool with with the with the cape and uh the the the what do you call it? Uh um the spikes in his head. And it's a song by a band called You ever heard of a man called Schwab?
SPEAKER_05Schwab.
SPEAKER_02No, I don't think I have SCH or S S C H W A B Schwab. And they had a song called DJs in a row, and it's sort of like this sample of Tom Jones over this dance beat, but not over the dance beat of like, you know, like boom spoop spoom. It's a little bit more hardcore, almost techno sounding. Okay, and it's just I guess maybe it's because of the scene in the movie, but uh that's that's a movie you guys gotta see if you get a chance to. It's called uh it's all gone peak tong.
SPEAKER_03There's a similar movie that came out just a little recently, uh like recently, it's called The Sound of Metal. And I have a drummer, the drummer, and the drummer goes. Definite death band, and he tries to continue on with it. Have you seen that yet?
SPEAKER_02No, I haven't seen it, but I I I actually watched uh that guide of England, uh brilliant um interviewer Graham. Uh no, is it Graham? What's his name? Graham Norton. Yeah, I love Graham. So Graham Norton had him on, the guy who plays the drummer. Oh, and I thought, and I thought, you know, this is such an interesting concept because they obviously don't know that there was this movie done about this DJ who goes deaf. Yeah, but the concept is great. I can't wait to see it because yeah, it's about a metal drummer who loses his hearing completely. Yeah. And that guy who plays him is an up-and-coming uh English actor. I can't remember his name, but he's quite good. And I yeah, I want to see that too. Yeah, for sure. That's on my list. I'll put that on the list and check that out too, for sure.
SPEAKER_05All right, for sure.
SPEAKER_03Right on. Well, then I think we're we're wrapping up here. Um, do you have anything? You want to use our platform to promote whatever it is you're gonna have going on in your life right now, or you just keeping it real?
SPEAKER_04No, I'm good.
SPEAKER_02You're good, you're good. Make sure uh because you know, not that he gives me money or anything, but I know he likes to plug his stuff, so I'll just make sure that people are still tuning into the Todd Cast podcast, of course. But no, I'm uh I I'm you know what? I haven't decided whether or not podcasting I'm gonna get back into. I've had a couple of conversations with some people. Uh Dean Blundell has a network, um and uh the people who run that forum we've been speaking and they were talking about maybe doing something. I I want to come up with a concept. You mean this is this is the thing about podcasts, really. You have to come up with a concept. There has to be some hyper-focused content, otherwise, you know, you can go on forever and you're not really sure what's going on. I mean, there's there's there's podcasts that will grow organically, like Joe Rogan did sort of thing, but then there's Mark Merron. But there's also, you know, there's tons of like crying beat podcasts and shows about the 90s and all that kind of stuff. So trying to think if I can come up with a concept that works for me, because when it comes down to it, you have to do a podcast that works that you're interested in. It's no use just picking something and not being passionate about it. So so I don't know. Maybe we'll see me in the future, maybe not. I I don't know if I've got the energy to to go through all of that again to create what you need to do. But in the meantime, I'm out there listening to everybody else's, including yourselves. So, you know, keep going, guys.
SPEAKER_03Well, you're not gonna get that time back, but we appreciate it again.
SPEAKER_02Neil talks. There's there's what I'll plug. Follow me on Twitter, Neil Talks and make sure you DM me saying you heard me on the uh people who talk to cloud or the old men that talk to clouds podcast. Oh, I actually know someone heard this.
SPEAKER_05We we we yell at them, we don't just talk to them.
SPEAKER_02Oh, sorry, yes, yell. Yes, sorry, yell. I forgot my Simpsons episode.
SPEAKER_05Nope, nope, that's no problem. It's awesome that you were able to join us though, and it's good that you're doing well, and it's good to see you and you're healthy and everything. That's the most important thing.
SPEAKER_02So absolutely, I'm doing great, and you guys look good too. So, you know, keep problems.
SPEAKER_05And uh, if you want to catch up with us again, uh, we're always happy to have you.
SPEAKER_03That's nah, no. Peace of love, Neil. Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_05Thanks, man.
SPEAKER_03See you guys.
SPEAKER_00So you just wasted between 15 minutes and two hours of your time. Was it worth it? Nope. But you have more time to kill, you say? Find out about everything you just listened to and more at old men who yell at clouds.com.
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